Pension Discussions
Post your pension issues, questions and comments under this category
National Chrysler Retirement Organization
The NCRO was formed to preserve retiree benefits, improve communication, and foster fellowship among retirees.
BLOG.NCRO.ORG: Pension Discussions
Does anyone have a clear understanding of the PBGC rule regarding Part 4022B - Aggregate limits on guaranteed benefits?
I receive a combined pension payment from the CPP and the ESERP.
It is unclear to me as I read it (shown below)whether the limitation applies indivually to each plan or to both in the aggregate.
If it is to both in the aggregate, and if both plans are terminated, then the best we can expect from our pension is $54,000/year...not a very good retirement.
Following is the rule.
4022B.1 Aggregate payments limitation.
(a) Benefits with respect to two or more plans. If a person (or persons) is entitled to benefits payable with respect to one participant in two or more plans, the aggregate benefits payable by PBGC from its funds is limited by § 4022.22 of this chapter (without regard to § 4022.22(a)). The PBGC will determine the limitation as of the date of the last plan termination.
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DCX35 wrote:
I for one am a bit confused over what is CURRENTLY considered as "SRP" and over which portions of the total pension are considered "qualified" vs. "unqualified". On my Feb. 2004 retirement paperwork's plan breakdown "Incentive Compensation Benefit" shows in both ESERP (larger percentage)and in SRP (small amount) categories as shown below:
#1 DAIMLERCHRYSLER CORPORATION PENSION PLAN:
-- Basic Pension Plan (21.4% of total pension amount)
-- Temporary Benefit (0% of total pension amount - expected since, I'm now over 62 yrs. old and went on Social Security)
#2 EXECUTIVE SALARIED EMPLOYEES' RETIREMENT PLAN (ESERP):
-- Contributory Benefit (23.7% of total pension amount)
-- Final Average Salary Benefit (26% of total pension amount)
-- Incentive Compensation Benefit (27.9% of total pension amount)
#3 SUPPLEMENTAL EXECUTIVE RETIREMENT PLAN (SRP):
-- Incentive Compensation Benefit (1.1% of total pension amount - i.e. a very minor amount shown in category SRP . . . as defined Feb. 2004)
Does anybody have a clear picture of which of these categories are NOW considered to be included in SRP and which categories are NOW considered "qualified" and "unqualified" (bottom line question; which of these categories are about to be taken away?). Also, I remember the term "shelf" having been applied (verbally) to my retirement plan at the exit interview (although this term does not show up in writing in any of my paperwork). In relating to NCRO blog Author Rick Brown's 5/1/2009 2:52:48 PM comment (in the Welcome section), it might indicate that my entire pension is somehow in jeopardy. Clarifying comments on the meaning of "shelf" as applies to a Chrysler pension would also be greatly appreciated.
THANKS! DCX35
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How do I go back to April postings on the Pension thread?
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You might have to log back into the blog site. Scroll down to the blog section titled "WELCOME". Most of the blog posts started there. I set up separate blog entry points due to the increasing number of blog postings.
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Can the law firm the NCRO has retained provide us with specifics on what they are doing and intend to do to preserve our benefits, especially our pensions in their entirety?
Can they specifically address each non-union pension plan, e.g., BASIC, ESERP, SERP, SRP, SUPPLEMENT, etc., and briefly explain in layman's terms what we can expect if these plans revert to the PBGC?
Perusing the PBGC web site, it's apparent that the government formulas used to determine the amounts paid are somewhat complex as would be expected from the Fed. As an example, if the PBGC acquires our pensions, it appears such accounts as the ESERP and SERP would not necessarily be paid in full. The SUPPLEMENT or bridge to Social Security would not be covered at all. Thereby, causing many early retirees to lose perhaps the majority of their pension until they acquire Social Security at age 62.
I believe that this specific information will clearly show that we all, regardless of age or pension plan, will lose considerable amounts if the NEW CHRYSLER does not retain our plans and they revert to the PBGC.
Such detailed information on what we all may lose will provide an unquestionable impetus for all us to cut that $75 check (or more) necessary to retain the law firm that is perhaps our only means of keeping our current pension and benefits intact with the NEW CHRYSLER and not the PBGC. (and perhaps restoring the SRP portion that has already been lost).
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There is an important article listed at the URL below that discusses the fate of our pensions.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/opinion/story/67595.html
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A webpage was created by the PBGC to answer some questions regarding Chrsyler Pension Plans for workers and retirees. The link appears below. This answers basic questions regarding PBGC rules, which determine payout should the plans be assumed. The outcome is still unknown as Chrsyler has not completed the bankruptcy process.
http://www.pbgc.gov/workers-retirees/chrysler.html
One thing you need to be aware of is that guaranteed benefit payments of qualified plans are fixed at the date Chrysler enters bankruptcy. It is not subject to annual updates. The maximum guarantee is subject to several variables and can be better understood if you go through the process of identifying your particular situation at the website.
Also, please be sure to read the 2009 updates at: http://www.pbgc.gov/media/news-archive/news-releases/2008/pr09-03.html .
Also important to note is that Chrysler, the U.S. Treasury, and the UAW are all on record saying that they intend to bring the qualified pension plans along into the new Chrysler that emerges from bankruptcy. This is only their intent and is not a guarantee that this will actually happen as no one knows until bankruptcy is finalized. Also, realize that Chrysler has numerous pension plans, of which the UAW is only one. There are separate ones for Salaried, Executives, AMC, Jeep, etc. Although the UAW may have gained an advantage on their pension, it doesn't necessarily translate into the other plans. The Salaried Retirees were basically unrepresented until the NCRO stepped up to the task. Chrysler, by law, must file a Form 5500 annually, which details plan participants, current value of assets, etc. The latest filing is for 2007 (before the large decline in the stock market). You can obtain this information for free at - http://www.freeerisa.com/5500/CompanyDetail.asp?company=CHRYSLER+LLC .
One other thing to note is that none of this pertains to the non-qualified plans, which include the medical benefits and supplemental plans.
You can read more at:
Chrysler survival critical for young retirees - http://www.freep.com/article/20090509/COL07/905090403/1002/NLETTER01/Chrysler+survival+critical+for+young+retirees?source=nletter-business
Firms end Chapter 11 fight, ease Chrysler-Fiat alliance (tells you how the NCRO is fighting for you) - http://www.freep.com/article/20090509/BUSINESS01/905090408/1002/NLETTER01/Firms+end+Chapter+11+fight++ease+Chrysler-Fiat+alliance?source=nletter-business
I hope afte reading this posting, you realize how important it is to support the NCRO. Please consider donating $75 (or more if you can afford it) to the NCRO to protect your benefits. This goes for retirees and employees as this will affect you too when you cross over to retiree status. Go to - http://www.ncro.org/bankruptcy.htm
In interest of full disclosure, I am not an NCRO member nor do I perform any volunteer work for the NCRO. My husband, however, is a Chrysler retiree, so it affects me indirectly as well as my kids.
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Of possible interest to those who were receiving Incentive Compensation as part of their total pension benefits; I asked the Benefit Express website the following question and received the following answer:
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Question: I am paid Incentive Compensation benefits which are partially paid through the SRP category and partially paid through the SERP [formerly called ESERP on my retirement documents] category. Will Chrysler now stop paying only the SRP portion of the total pension payment which includes Incentive Compensation payment or will it also stop paying the portion of Incentive Compensation payment which is paid through the SERP category?
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Hello from Your Benefits Resources [TM].
Only $(amount not shown), which is SRP will be taken from the check. You will see no change in the amount of SERP you receive. Your May check was reissued on May 8th. Please allow mail time from Auburn Hills MI.
I am paid Incentive Compensation benefits which are partially in the SRP and partially in the SERP [called ESERP on retirement documents] categories. Will Chrysler stop paying me only the SRP portion of my total pension payment or will it also stop paying me the portion of my Incentive Compensation located in the SERP category?
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I am one of the 1200 that had their pension reversed on May 1. A check just came in today's mail. The only difference was that the SRP amount is gone.
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HEADLINE: Chrysler salaried retirees ask for committee (Associated Press, 5.13.2009, issued aprox. 4pm)
NEW YORK (AP) — A group representing Chrysler's retired salaried workers is asking the judge overseeing the automaker's Chapter 11 proceedings to appoint an official committee of retirees, citing concerns about the future of their benefits.
The National Chrysler Retirement Organization, which represents more than 16,000 Chrysler retirees and surviving spouses, claims in its motion that it has been left out of negotiations with the automaker.
The group claims that under Chrysler's current reorganization plan, the retirement benefits of salaried retirees would not transfer to the new company that's expected to be created by the sale of most of Chrysler's assets to Italy's Fiat Group SpA.
At the same time, retirement benefits for the automaker's unionized workers are expected to be protected under the new company, the group said.
But Chrysler filed an objection to the motion, calling it a "backdoor attack" to the automaker's sale plan, adding that it hasn't made any attempt to modify or terminate the retirees benefits.
As a result, Chrysler said the group doesn't have grounds to ask for a committee be formed and that doing so would create unnecessary costs.
U.S. Judge Arthur Gonzales will consider the retiree group's motion at a hearing Thursday in New York.
SOURCE: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5h97MmGsIRGiwghZtGF1MvfKCB_YQD985I5DO1
My comment: The spin is negative for salaried retirees. Please donate to NCRO to support the cause of preserving Chrysler retirees' pension and benefits. You can donate at their website: http://www.ncro.org/bankruptcy.htm
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Chrysler Notebook: Judge denies retirees motion
The Associated Press
Thursday, May 14, 2009; 1:48 PM
NEW YORK -- Developments from Thursday's Chrysler bankruptcy hearing:
THE ISSUE: A group representing Chrysler retired salaried workers asked U.S. Judge Arthur Gonzales for permission to form a formal committee to take part in Chrysler LLC's bankruptcy process.
THE ARGUMENTS: The retirees group said they were concerned that their current health care benefits would not transfer to the new company that's expected to be created by the sale of most of Chrysler's assets to Italy's Fiat Group SpA.
But attorneys for Chrysler said the formation of a committee wasn't necessary because salaried retiree benefits are currently expected to continue under the new company, but with cost increases for the higher-compensated retirees.
THE DECISION: Gonzales agreed that the committee was not needed yet, saying that any decision about the fate of the retiree benefits would ultimately be made by the new company, not Chrysler as it stands now. Therefore, there is little point in the retirees negotiating with Chrysler. But he did say that the retirees could present their motion again if circumstances changed later.
WHAT'S NEXT: The next hearing is scheduled for May 20. That day is also the deadline for potential Chrysler buyers to submit their bids.
SOURCE: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/14/AR2009051402439.html
MY COMMENT: Note the last paragraph. The fate of retiree benefits is in the hands of the new company (or Fiat) and the judge has left it open for the NCRO to re-enter a motion "should" circumstances change. Again, the UAW retiree benefits were negotiated going into bankruptcy. The salaried retiree benefits have not. It is, however, assumed that the salaried retiree benefits will carry over to Fiat. You know what they say about assume.
Please donate to NCRO to support the cause of preserving Chrysler retirees' pension and benefits. You can donate at their website: http://www.ncro.org/bankruptcy.htm
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HEADLINE: Fiat to retain benefits for Chrysler's retirees (Reuters, Thu May 14, 2009 6:00pm BST)
SUMMARY: Fiat intends to continue benefits for Chrysler's 19,000 nonunion retirees. Documents filed by the court contained numerous references to benefits of union members and retirees and virtually no mention of nonunion retirees. Although the motion for a committee was denied, the judge allowed the motion to be resubmitted in the event a change in the intent to honor the salaried benefits occur.
Chrysler's attorney, Pedro Jimenez, said the current intent is for Fiat to continue benefits to nonunion retired employees with a final salary of $55,000 or less for at least one year. Other salaried retirees will pay higher premiums for their healthcare coverage. Jimenez also said Chrysler has the right to unilaterally modify the retirees' healthcare plan.
Go the the link below to read the article in it's entirety.
SOURCE: http://uk.reuters.com/article/marketsNewsUS/idUKN1447820220090514?pageNumber=2
MY COMMENT: It ain't over 'til it's over (to coin a phrase). The next hearing is scheduled for next Wednesday, May 20.
Please donate to NCRO to support the cause of preserving Chrysler retirees' pension and benefits. You can donate at their website: http://www.ncro.org/bankruptcy.htm
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In the event of a PGBC takeover of the Salaried deferred Pension Funds.
All retirees age 55 to 64 should be made aware of this option in the IRS tax code. If the worst case occurs and we lose health care coverage pre age 65, this may help many Chrysler retirees. I did not do a deep dive, but on the surface its sounds like the HCTC will cover about 80% or your health care cost if you are age 55 to 64 if and only if the PGBC has taken over your defined pension trust.
Health Coverage Tax Credit (HCTC)
PBGC does not guarantee or pay for health insurance. However, certain PBGC benefit recipients who are age 55 or over and are covered by qualified health insurance are eligible for the Health Coverage Tax Credit (HCTC) administered by the Internal Revenue Service.
The credit is not available to everyone. For example, a PBGC benefit recipient receiving certain specified health coverage, such as Medicare, will be ineligible to use the HCTC program.
To find out more about HCTC, you can:
Call 1-866-628-4282 for the HCTC Program Customer Contact Center. (TTY/TDD users, call 1-866-626-4282)
See Frequently Asked Questions on HCTC
Visit the IRS website
If you are eligible for HCTC, you may also be able to apply for National Emergency Grant (NEG) Gap Filler funds, which are available in certain states to help individuals pay for qualified health coverage until they begin receiving the advance tax credit through the HCTC Program. Contact the U.S. Department of Labor at 1-877-US-2JOBS (1-877-872-5627) and ask if your state has a NEG Gap Filler Program.
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The statement from Chrysler is broad and does not define "pension benefits". Will this include the SRP payments that were deducted from our checks? How do we go about getting specific info on these subjects?
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HEADLINE: Chrysler’s Pensions Are Underfunded by $10 Billion
Chrysler seeking approval of settlement with PBGC, Cerberus Capital Management LP and Daimler AG to avoid termination of, and to partly fund, 10 defined benefit pension plans. A hearing on the settlement is scheduled for May 27.
Read the entire news article (link below).
SOURCE: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=avFM_EBpqY1E&refer=home
Please donate to NCRO to protect Chrysler retirees' pensions and benefits. You can donate at their website: http://www.ncro.org/bankruptcy.htm
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I pickup this note:
Chrysler’s Pensions Are Underfunded by $10 Billion (Update3)
DeliciousDiggFacebookLinkedInNewsvinePropellerYahoo! BuzzCloseShare | Email | Print | A A A
By Christopher Scinta
May 19 (Bloomberg) -- Bankrupt Chrysler LLC’s pension plans may be underfunded by more than $10 billion, the federal Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. has estimated.
For the complete note:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=avFM_EBpqY1E&refer=home#
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HEADLINES: Chrysler creditor group asks court to appoint examiner
SUMMARY: Indiana Pensioners asked a bankruptcy court to appoint an examiner to investigate and oversee Chrysler business decisions stating "...the government has exceeded its authority, caused the debtors to breach their fiduciary duties, dominated and controlled all of the key decisions and assessments the debtors are required to make, and otherwise utilized this bankruptcy process to advance its own agenda at the expense of the debtors' estates."
MY COMMENT: This is a pension group in Indiana which are holders of Chrysler senior secured debt. As you recall, there were a few holdouts to the pre-bankruptcy agreement who were upset over their unfavorable position as secured lenders. It will be interesting to see how this is played out.
SOURCE: http://www.reuters.com/article/governmentFilingsNews/idUSN2048483220090520
Please donate to NCRO to protect Chrysler retirees' pensions and benefits. You can donate at their website: http://www.ncro.org/bankruptcy.htm
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$54,000 a year is NOT a good retirement????? My wife makes less than $40,000 a year with a Masters Degree now.
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I am a non-union, vested executive with 250 service months ... trying to determine my pension start date (60 or 65 years old) ... any comments/advice about my group? Note - I recently contact BenefitExpress for an Pension Estimate Statement (Pension Plan plus SERP.) The question is (VESTED)!
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Those 55-62 (through 65 for AMC years) received a soc. security bridge which is a significant portion of their current pension payment. While not gauranteed, it is my understanding it was agreed that the Union workers would continue to receive this bridge. Has there been any discussion on this how might be handled for salaried retirees?
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It is my understanding that Chrysler changed the method for paying SRP for some retirees after approx. 9/2006. Retirees after that date received SRP funds by way of an annuity paid by an insurance company (Hartford?), which removed the funds from creditor exposure. Not sure why Chrysler did not do something similar for earlier retirees. Does this present a potential cause of action that could be pursued by our legal counsel?
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Regarding "the SRP payments that were deducted from our checks?" - has anyone who had their May 1st direct deposit called back received their hard copy check with a reduced amount? I understand they were to be mailed out on May 18th. I am still waiting for mine.
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$54K sounds like a lot of money, especially as compared to the $40K that your wife makes...but if your pension was $100K and you have setup your life style on $100K it would be a huge cut. When one makes more than $100K per year it is because they worked very hard to achieve a particular goal. If the comparison will always be with someone who makes less than you should feel vary blessed because your wife makes alot more than many other people. Consider your self blessed but do not fault those who have worked very hard to achieve something better
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SRP is a non qualified plan and subject to creditor claims
SERP / ESERP are qualified plans
CPP (basic) is a qualified plan
All qualified plans are protected from the creditors
In some cases, depending on age, IRS reqts and annuity setups, Chrysler moved some of SRP to the ESERP to protect it from the future creditor claims. If the pension funds covering the above plans are fully funded, all is fine. When the pension plans are terminated and underfunded then they are taken over by the PBGC
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Absolutely valid query worth checking out since it seems the SRP Trust Fund may have been "raided/looted" by buying annuities for a favored group of SRP plan partipants and to the detriment of another group of SRP paln participants. Equality ?
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My wife was inquiring about vision care at Sam's club the other day and she was informed that as of June 1st Chrysler would not be honored for insurance purposes.
Yesterday, I received a call from my dentist and was informed that my coverage would be dropped as of June 1st, 2009.
I guess the pension benefits are still okay, but Chrysler is dropping the health care portion???????
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I am technically a Chrysler Financial retiree. Presently, I receive my entire pension benefit from the SRP. Does the SRP objection to the sale, filed by the NCRO, also cover me and my benefit?
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Jerry
My husband moved his family 12 times so he could advance his career and his savings. It was a sacrifice his wife and children also made. Now that there is a chance we could lose it; we wonder if we should not have taken the safer path. Everyone pays a price and it is not alway monetary.
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We received our check less the SRP on May 15.
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Is there any update to the word we got a week ago that Chrysler was going to bring salary pensions, health care, and SRP over to the "new" company? That was the last word with no update that I acn find.
Thanks,
Jim
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Chrysler has confirmed to the NCRO and bankruptcy court that all the current salaried retiree healthcare plans, including the Retiree Health Spending/Savings Account, are being assumed and also that all qualified pension plans and the corresponding trust are being assumed. They also confirmed that SRP is being bifurcated with only the obligations to the under 62 group being assumed. They said the decision to bifurcate the SRP was purposeful and "based on cost." After much discussion with our legal firm Chrysler will not voluntarily agree to assume all of the SRP. Our attorney has modified the SRP Objection to note the Chrysler action and will be in court in NYC tomorrow to argue the Objection to the Sale based on Chrysler's position that SRP will not be paid to retirees after the age of 62 is reached.
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I called to set up an appointment with my optician and was told we already do not have optical. This was last week, when does coverage end?
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How can they get away with this? I paid into the SRP fund from my incentive compensation for 17 years before I retired in 2001, and SRP is (was) 22% of my pension check until they cut it off on April 30th. They took it away from me and now they're going to give MY benefit to others in a younger age group? Sounds like age discrimination to me.
Good luck to those of you for whom the SRP portion of your pension is a higher percentage than mine was.
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I hear what you are saying I'm in the same boat. I emailed my senators and congressman to look into this. Seems the auto task force is more interested in union matters and not us!
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John H. - The current administration's actively pursued overall program of "redistribution of wealth" also tends to be, as you note, "age discrimintation" in that those that have accumulated wealth over a lifetime of work, on average, probably tend to be the wealthiest. It ain't fittin', it ain't fittin . . . it just ain't fittin'.
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Anyone out there that is VESTED and not drawing a pension yet? A response from NCRO would also be appreciated.
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Kathy - Optical coverage went away two years ago when salaried retiree medical, dental, and optical coverage was discontinued.
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Has anyone received there June EFT pension statement yet? I know benefit express said June's check would be EFT after the fiasco we had with May's check do to the SRP.
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I just received my EFT for June. All was fine
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I am still upset about this SRP take away from 62 and older. I email channel 4 news here in Detroit because I am sick of seeing the union on TV saying how much they gave up. I ask Rod Meloni the channel 4 auto reporter to do a comparison between what the non-union vs union have given up over the last two to three years as well as over this bankruptcy. We all need to speak up more!
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HAS ANYONE HAD A PROBLEM WITH THE SPP PORION OF THEIR 6/1/2009 PENSION CHECK?
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If you mean "SRP" (not "SPP"), I got my June EFT stub today, and the SRP portion is gone, as expected.
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http://www.chryslerrestructuring.com/chr/Retiree%20FAQ%205-8-09%205pml.pdf
go to page 4, perhaps this will help; there is a chart of qualified and non-qualified plans
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31 years, walked out last Sept with 1 years severance...till May 1st and Chrysler shut it off...although I'm eligible for a "early grow-in pension" at age 55...do you think it will be there after the proceedings?? talk about getting the ...
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LK: I'm in a similar boat. Just as FYI: The IPP may be assumed by New Chrysler; it is listed in a related Purchasing Agreement document as an employee agreement to be carried over. Also, with the assumption of the qualified pension plans and the fact that the Grow-In SER is part of those plans (both the basic and the SERP), we should, "theoretically" be fine. No guarantees of course, and we won't know for sure until we file at 55, but thought I'd share what I've seen so far, which is positive.
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Well, I just read the latest NCRO e-mail about the Bankruptsy and I read the decision. I still don't know if any of my pension or health benefits will continue. I retired in '87. Why can't anyone speak plain English?
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Amen. We are not lawyers.
I used to think I was a relatively bright person, but I'll be darned if I can figure out what my status will be next month. This month its easy -- I didn't get any checks I expected (none since mid April) and like a lot of people finances are getting quite strained.
Sure wish there was a page that just told you what was going on plan by plan -- difinatively. These blogs have comments from people who may or may not know what they are talking about -- even if you could understand them.
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HEADLINE: Judge OKs Daimler, Cerberus Deal To Forgive Chrysler Loans
SUMMARY: Good news...Daimler forgives $2 billion loans and pay $600 million into pension. Cerberus forgives $500 million loan. The settlement wipes out debt and eliminates the possibility that PBGC could terminate Chrysler's pension plans, which are underfunded by $10 billion. Read article in its entirety at link below.
SOURCE: http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/stock-market-news-story.aspx?storyid=200906031722dowjonesdjonline000849&title=judge-oks-daimler-cerberus-deal-to-forgive-chrysler-loans
Thank you NCRO for your role in protecting Chrysler retirees' pensions. To donate to NCRO, which helps defray their expenses, go to their website: http://www.ncro.org/bankruptcy.htm
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QUESTIONS FOR NCRO:
I am technically a Chrysler Financial retiree. I retired in September 2005 before the sale, by Daimler, of Chrysler to Ceberus. Until May1, I was receiving my entire benefit from the Chrysler LLC SRP plan. This benefit was a total amount equivalent to what I was eligible for under ALL plans, but it was fundied and paid through only the SRP until 62. I have been told by Chrysler Financial that until age 62, I am receiving my ENTIRE penison benefit from the former Chrysler LLC SRP plan. I am now 58.
It would be greatly appreciated if, in their INFORMAL OPINION only(I know nothing is binding), the NCRO could addres the following concerns for me:
1.) Since the SRP is moving to New Chrysler, under the FIAT sale agreement, should I be receiving the EXACT SAME pension benefit, as before the bankruptcy filing, beginning sometime soon, or will it be reduced ?, and
2.) I received an Official Form 9F entitled "Notice of Chrysler LLC, et al. Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Cases, Meeting of Creditors, and Deadlines" and dated May 28, 2009. Even though I read the form, I am confused as to whether, given my situation as summarized above, I should be submitting a "Proof of Claim". What are others doing ?
I understand that any opinion shared with me by the NCRO, is just an informal opinion and nothing official in any way.
Thank you very much.
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The NCRO is having a Special Bankruptcy Informational Meeting on June 12, 2009.
Please go to http://www.ncro.org/eventsx.htm for all the details to reserve a spot.
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Great work by NCRO and congrats on getting Lee to signup. Several questions, I have not seen or heard answers to yet. Now that NEW co is going to absorb the plans and the pre62 SRP...
1. When can we expect the SRP to be paid again
2. Is there any expectation that New Co will pay us the SRP portion for the months (may and june for now) that it has not been included?"
THANKS
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1. When can we expect the SRP to be paid again? Per the NCRO attorney, pre-62 SRP payments will begin as soon as the new Chrysler emerges from bankruptcy.
2. Is there any expectation that New Co will pay us the SRP portion for the months (may and june for now) that it has not been included?
We do not know the answer to that question.
There is a Bankruptcy Informational Meeting being held on June 12. The NCRO attorney will be in attendance. It is possible he might have the answer to your question by then as the bankruptcy hearings and appeals should be over by then. Please visit http://www.ncro.org/eventsx.htm for details.
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Hoping never to have to rely on payment from the PBGC, the settlement between Daimler & Cerberus is great news!!!
"Daimler forgives $2 billion loans and pay $600 million into pension. Cerberus forgives $500 million loan."
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I just received this ntoice from Chrysler "IMPORTANT NOTICE CONCERNING YOUR RIGHTS". Can someone tell me in plain english what this is about? I think it may mean, Chrysler wants to pay out in lump sum the people that belong in these pension plans and be done with them. If that is the case, what about tax consequences?
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The first paragraph states that lump sum distributions are not permitted under the bankruptsy rules but will be allowed only for lump sums attributable to 2008 programs. Bottome line ...if you rertired before the bankruptsy date and you are not discussing the 2008 program then your pension should continue by the new company as stated by Chrysler to the judge .
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Regarding SRP payments for May & June: I think it would be appropriate for NCRO lawyers to file a motion seeking payment of these amounts as a condition to the assumption and assignment to the newco. My review of the docket reveals no sucb motion. Why haven'NCRO lawyers been directed to seek this remedy?
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Per the NCRO attorney:
Chrysler chose not to submit continuation of payment for these May/June payments. As a result these payments go to the Unsecured Creditors Committee. We did submit a limited objection to the sale for the continuation of payment which was denied. We will make the case for payment when the unsecured creditors committee is formed.
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Are we confident SRP will resume effective July 1? Thanks.
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If you are under the age of 62, we are as confident as we can be that SRP will resume July 1. The proof, obviously, will will come in 19 days.
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Will this apply to people were are under 62 and were receiving their entire benefit from the SRP, before the bankruptcy, AND are considered Chrysler Financial retirees, since the pre-bankruptcy reorganization. I have asked this several times, in several ways of the NRCO, but have not gotten any reply from the NCRO. The lack of a reply leaves the impression that maybe this question was not addressed in the negotiations. Can you please just give some kind of reply. It would be greatly appreciated, as are all your efforts.
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Pre 62 SRP recipients will have their payments resumed July1 or August 1 at the latest. We heard today at the informational meeting that a member received a letter from Chrysler stating July 1 is the date. If you are a Chrysler Financial retiree and are receiving a pension from Chrysler, that will continue. Chrysler Financial did not declare bankruptcy.
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I just received a letter from Alphons Iacobelli, Vice-President - Employee Relations. It states "... we will resume providing pre age 62 SRP/SPP benefits following the closing. These payments will include retroactive payments back to May 1, 2009. However, all SRP/SPP benefits will cease when you reach age 62.
You will receive a payments on July 1st representing SRP/SPP amounts for May, June and July, if applicable."
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Thank you for sharing that with the rest of us! SRP is still a huge issue with many of our members.
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Not acquainted with "SPP". Is that the same as or similar to the Income Protection Program (IPP) program? Does any one know or can comment? Also any one hear about resumptions of the IPP? Thank you.
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SPP is from American Motor pensions. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong here.
IPP payments will be resumed. Possibly by July 1, but more than likely by August 1. Payments will be retroactive
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Thank you very much. You guys and all the bloggers have been great and of much help. It's somewhat lonely out here, but you have helped make this transition period less stressful and more tolerable. Again thank you and God bless.
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SPP stands for "Supplemental Pension Plan" and is a nonqualified American Motors Pension Plan that covers some high level AMC executive retirees.
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Thank you, Liz
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What is a "shelf pension"?
{This might be a duplicate comment. My security software didn't like the godaddy site and I had to add it to my trusted site list.}
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A "shelf" pension is a type of special early retirement where all of the retire's monthly pension benefits are paid from the non-qualified (unsecured) SRP pension plan until the retiree reaches age 62. At age 62, the benefits revert to the qualified Chrysler Pension Plan and ESERP. Only executives are eligible for "shelf" retirements and shelf retirements are much less common than the standard "Special Early Retirement"
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Individuals with a "shelf pension" are carried as "on unpaid leave of absence" until they reach 62. At that time their status is changed to retired. One of the effects of this status is the inability to roll over your 401K into an IRA because you are not classified as retired.
I reached 62 early this year. This is what actions happened. 1. Your pension is reduced by the amount of anticipated Social Security benefits that was being paid by the SRP. 2. The remainder of my pension was paid out of a combination of Basic Pension, SERP, SRP and three Hartford annuities. 3. The SRP was 36% of my total pension benefit not including the annuities. Combined they were 50% of the total. 4. Only 30% of the SRP had been placed in the annuities. 5. The result is a 36% loss of my total pension ( not including the loss of the anticipated SS benefits ).
AS post 62 retirees know what we have. For the pre 62 retirees under the " shelf " program they may not know until they are 62. My guess would be that the post retirement SRP was about the difference between early retirement benefits and full retirement benefits. I do not know if there is a way to find out what will be paid when these retirees reach 62 and the SRP goes away. I hope they are not in for a nasty surprise.
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2 questions: 1. When are new NCRO dues due and payable--will we be notified? 2. Any word yet on lease car expense reimbursement. I submitted registration data on 4/21. Again, thank you for your effort and dedication
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Len,
We are in the planning stages of annual dues collections. We will be notifying the membership on or before the next quarterly breakfast meeting.
We have no knowledge of the company car reimbursement plan. Others on this blog have received letters. Please visit some of the other blog entries for input from other members.
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I'm still waiting on my reimbursement for my car registration. They told me that due to the Bankruptcy all claims are on hold. I thought that we were out of Bankruptcy? Sounds kind of fishy to me. Dan
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Was told yesterday by phone my IPP payments would resume, possibly by next Friday. Again thanks to NCRO, which I believe kept the light on these types of issues, as well as the retiree issues. God bless all.
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Thank you to the NCRO and all their hard work. My pension payment resumed today after two months with no income. Thank you
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I am a 100% SRP retiree under age 62. I did get my pension deposit on 7/1. Thanks. But I have not received a pension papaer statement yet, and when I visit the Benefits Express site on line, it says I have no future pension payments. Seems strange. I called B.E. and they had no answer-they will check out. NCRO-have you guys heard anything about this? is it just a temporary delay? anyone else in a similar position?
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Bob L,
I am under 62 retiree with a small portion of my pension in SRP. I also did not receive the paper statement for July's payment.
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We received this update from Deb M.
I had the same concern. My husband's pay stub arrived last Wednesday but mine did not. I called Benefits Express and was informed that I needed to contact Payroll. I called Payroll and was informed that I needed to contact Benefits Express. Finally, I contacted a friend in Benefits at Chrysler and received the following explanation:
"The reason why you didn't receive a stub this month is that we needed to pull and reissue the payment to include SRP monies. Unfortunately when we do that the EFT stub (that bad one) needs to be discarded and there is no mechanism to print a new one."
I determined that I retroactively received May and June SRP payments in my July EFT deposit (less incremental taxes). So, the money is right but SRP recipients will not receive a pay stub for July.
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Thanks-that explanation helps. I assume you also cannot see any pension ammounts on line at Benefits Express-right? Guess I'll just have to wait till Aug 1st. Hopefully things will be corrected then. Thanks again.
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Didn't get a check stub for August either, anybody hear why?
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Well it is now Aug 8, and I did not receive my August pension paper statement. I got the deposit in my bank account, but no statement. That's two months in a row with no statement. I am an SRP pre age 62. Anybody else having the same problem? I can't be the only one. BE does not have a clue on what the problem is.NCRO-if I am not the only one, can you help us get our statements? It makes no sense for us to be calling and harrassing BE every month to try and get a simulated pension statement. Comments? Can you help? Does Chrysler say they are sending the statements? My guess is no.
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One would wonder if in the situation Bob L. references (i.e. no pay statement issued to him but pay is being deposited to his bank account) if there actually is no pay statement being generated, his pay may not even be being reported to the IRS and may not be reflected on his year end W-2.
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Bob L. & Jim,
I did receive my normal statement from the Chrysler Pension Trust, confirming and detailing the direct deposit of my SRP payment (pre age 62).
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OK-thanks. That is good to know that you are getting it-and you are a pre age 62 SRP like me. I will call BE tomorrow and go up the ladder there-but I think Chyrsler is the one that sends out the statements. Anyway, thanks and I'll make some more calls.
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Tom, just one more question. Is your pre age 62 pension 100% SRP? or are you only partial SRP and part pension? I called BE today and they said because I am 100% SRP, I will not get a monthly statement. I told them that was ridiculous and I'll have to find a contact at Chrysler to talk to. Thanks for your response.
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Hi Bob,
Yes, to confirm I am 100% SRP funded pension, under age 62. The phone number I am given to call on my confirmation copy is BE 888-409-3300.
Tom
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Special info for SRP Retirees
Please visit http://www.ncro.org/#SRP for details
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I take it from the last few comments US pre 62 100% SRP folks didn't get a pay stub for July and August. BE says call Chrysler and Chrysler says call BE. Does anybody really know who dropped the ball on this so I can focus on that group?
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I did not get pay stub for July, and again for August. Initially told it was "lost in the mail". Subsequently found out that July stub was never created for some/all of the pre-62, 100% SRP pensioners. Apparently, not for August either. Benefits Express can get you a data sheet; but, not the original. Does Payroll intend to resolve this issue? Payroll has been giving BE a variety of answers; all appear to mask whatever is really happening.
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I too have not recieved my Aug statment.. I am NOT a 100%SRP, but do have a portion paid by SRP
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I am a pre 62 recieving SRP. TOday I got a claim form to submit a claim to the Old Company shell for a position in the distribution of the remaining assets. It had a number in it which equated to one month SRP. Did anyone else get such a form, and is NCRO taking these together as a class action?
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I received a "Notice of Dealines for Filing Proofs of Claim". It appears to be for some portion of SRP, as it references "unsecured" funds. Will NCRO be advising us as to how to properly and uniformly fill out this form?
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NCRO-we could use your help on this. Are we going to start receiving pay stubs for Sept? If not, we need your help in getting this resolved. We cannot get answers from BE or Chrysler. Thanks in advance for your help. Please let us know.
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Unfortunately, we have no answer to this issue. We have NCRO Board members who are in the same situation and we cannot get to the bottom of this problem. All of us need to continue to call and email Chrysler LLC and Benefits Express. One member provided a phone number to call for a confirmation copy. It is 888-409-3300.
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Back to Ron's comment on 8-25-09, we also received "notice of deadlines for filing of proofs of claim" forms stating the general bar date is 9-28-09. Will the NCRO be advising us on how to properly and uniformly fill out the form?
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I have received a notice of deadlines for filing of proofs of claim from the US Bankruptcy Court So District NY. The claim has no populated amounts in any of the categories for claim. Since the claim "Retiree Benefits" is listed has me concerned. What if anything am I supposed to do relative to this form?
Thank you.
David Lynn
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This was a notice of hearing sent to all salaried retirees with a filing deadline of September 28, 2009. It is our opinion that this Proof of Claim filing pertains to SRP (Supplemental Executive Retirement Plan Nonqualified Plan) recipients only. However, until we hear from our attorney, we cannot say with 100% certainty.
We are in contact with Trent Cornell, our attorney, and to date he has petitioned for a seat on the Creditor's Committee and he is putting a procedure together for making claims.
No action is needed by retirees as of now. Updates from our attorney will be posted on the website at http://www.ncro.org/bankruptcy.htm under the “Legal” section.
the NCRO Board
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Thank God for the NCRO ! Can you imagine what would have happened and what we would be doing at this point without it ? I am looking forward to the upcoming notice informing us of what the strategy is and the level of support needed from each individual SRP recipient. As a Chrysler Financial retiree, I hope that we will be included under the NCRO efforts.
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Thank you. Hopefully, Mr. Cornell will get back with info early enough to assure that the word will spread among the retirees affected, such that they can complete/submit the form.
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I have just received legal documents from epiq bankruptcy solitions. Is there anyone who can help with the questions asked of the recipient such as date debt was incurred?
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I finally received a paper check stub today. It doesn't show any deductions prior to the September payment but it looks like they are flowing again. Thanks to NCRO and everybody else that kept calling BE and Chrysler.
PS I am a 100% SRP pre-62 retiree.
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Re: the proof of claim form-is there any recommendation from the NCRO on attaching any supporting documentation? For example, the monthly SRP dollars lost times the number of months in the life expectancy table? Thanks.
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Well, it is the first of the month and again Chrysler has made a big problem for me again. No pension check deposited to my account. It wasn't bad enough that last month, they made a huge error in my taxes and had to re-issue an additionl check to me. Now, no money this month. Thanks to all at NCRO for providing a contact to talk to last month, as I have already contacted them again. Am I the only one that has been a victim of screw-ups with my pension checks? What a fine job Chrysler has done, getting rid of all the people that knew what they were doing when working there!
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Anyone else receive a correced 1099R.
Chrysler sent a letter on Feb 18 saying that the 1099R was wrong and would send a new one in March. I had already filed of course. The corrected 1099R came March 6th. It was good news - lower taxable amount but now must refile.
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I got laid off in September 2008 and after allmost 29 years at Chrysler I found out from Benefits Express that my Pension will be next to nothing. I have had a hard time understanding exactly what I am entitled to since the people you are dealing with are in India and not very polite at all. Is there anyone that could sit down with me and explain the Salaried pension benefits. My email is michaelsavu@gmail.com I would really appreciate any help. Thanks
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As a pre-62 retiree, my "pension" check was drawn upon SRP funds. I started drawing Social Security when I turned 62. Just informed by SSA that I need to repay my benefits for last year, as SRP payments are "earned income"; and, exceeded the allowable EI for a year. If I had been getting the non-SRP pension, I would still be allowed my SSI checks.
Anyone else had this problem? How did you handle it?
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I am a post 62 retiree and was faced with the same issue. I was instructed by the Social Security Administration to produce proof that the pension from my SRP was not current income. I resolved the issue by obtaining a letter from the personnel dept( actually the tax affairs dept) that verifies that amount shown on your w-2 form is income earned in previous years. This did the trick for me. Try it.
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